Exclusive: Orci & Kurtzman Talk Transformers and More

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Exclusive: Orci & Kurtzman Talk Transformers and More

Source:Edward Douglas

June 23, 2009

By now, Alex Kurtzman and Roberto Orci probably have carte blanche at Superhero Hype! and ComingSoon.net, not just because they continue to write the coolest summer genre movies, but also going to back to their earlier work with J.J. Abrams on the television show "Alias" (a personal favorite of this site's editor-in-chief).

Even before anyone can hear their latest dialogue in Michael Bay's Transformers: Revenge of the Fallen, they've already had an amazing summer '09, having co-written and produced Abrams' blockbuster relaunch of Star Trek and co-produced last week's rom-com hit The Proposal, starring Sandra Bullock and Ryan Reynolds.

In fact, it's almost inevitable we'd talk to Bob and Alex around this time of year, because we've gotten on the phone with them to catch up on their latest projects for the last two years, and they've written one of the most anticipated movies of the summer. (If interested, you can read those previous interviews here and here.)

Admittedly, this might not be our best interview with them, just because they were more pressed for time than usual, and we had a lot of ground to cover, so we basically had to touch upon a little bit of everything. Either way, they're always fun to talk to, almost like a screenwriting version of Abbott and Costello with Orci jumping in with jokes to lighten up Kurtzman's more serious answers to our questions. (Hopefully, we'll someday have a chance to do a longer in-person interview with the guys, 'cause they're the tops in our book.)

Superhero Hype!: We talked briefly about this last year, but you wrote this before the writers strike and were you able to do some work on it after it was over and before it started shooting?
Roberto Orci: We took the job with Ehren Kruger two weeks before the strike so in that two weeks, we had to generate a 20-page outline that we handed in, and then during the strike, Michael and the amazing (producer) Ian Bryce tried to prep everything they could off of that outline. Then from the day the strike ended to the first day of shooting was three months, so we had to write the script in those three months, handing in pages at the end of every day so they could be prepped. It was crazy. We finished writing the movie two weeks ago, literally.
Alex Kurtzman: Because you're writing lines for the robots in post. Not only did we rewrite on set but we spent the last six months with Michael in post, cutting the movie and writing the lines for the robots, just making jokes or making plot points more clear. Literally, they had to just rip it out of our dead hands the other day. (chuckles)

SHH!: What about pressures of writing a sequel? When you wrote the first one, no one knew it was going to do that well, but as you wrote the second one, was there a lot of pressure to fit in stuff you weren't able to do the first time?
Kurtzman: I think frankly, you have to tune out the noise, both of the first movie and just what the expectations are for the sequel. You find the emotional link that you have to the movie and you write to that, and working with Michael, you always know that the action is going to be big. Our job is to actually focus on the small things and hope that the emotional story can be told within the context of the movie Michael wants to make.
Orci: Luckily, there were a lot of things from the first movie that we didn't get to do, so that we already had some material going into this one.

SHH!: When you guys decide which robots you want to use, they're designed very differently from the cartoon or the toys, so do you have to just write the action and hope the designers can design them in a way that it'll work?
Orci: Well, you know you have your core central ones that we have from the first movie and then you try and tailor the other ones to what the action or what the story's going to be. At least when they're vehicles, you know what that is very clearly, so it's more about their robot shapes that becomes the unknown factor. Their voices actually change as we see ILM's shots come in during post-production. We get inspired by what they're doing and they come up with some amazing stuff that then changes some of the dialogue for us. We adjust it to fit the physical characterization that we get back sometimes that we're surprised by.

SHH!: I know you guys write a lot of detail in your action scenes so how does that work when you don't know what the robots might be able to do technically?
Kurtzman: No, an action sequence has to be choreographed around the emotional steps of the story, so while we work with Bay very closely on the blocking of it, and he certainly does his thing there, he's working around how it's moving the plot forward hopefully, and most of those sequences have to reveal something or challenge the characters in a certain way.

SHH!: We've seen a lot of the Sam and Michaela stuff in the trailers, so we have some idea what's going to happen to them, but what about the other characters like Lennox and Epps, have they changed a lot in the two years since the first movie?
Kurtzman: I think you discover that they've actually been working with the Autobots, because the Decepticons are beginning to show up again and they're clearly after something, and they're not sure why. One of the things you find out early on in the movie that Lennox and Epps have been working with Optimus from the beginning to figure out what's going on.
Orci: And that they may clash with their civilian leadership so they're patriotism is slightly coming into question. How do you violate orders without violating the spirit of the law of the orders, but doing what's right anyway.

SHH!: You two have obviously been working on this and "Star Trek" over the last few years, so how hard is it to keep this stuff secret? When you were writing the first movie, it probably wasn't as challenging, I'd imagine.
Kurtzman: It's very, very tough. We actually have to employ stupid security measures at this point on stuff. When we were writing the first "Transfomers" movie, we had sent Michael pages, like 70 pages, and then Bob called me at 11:30 one night in a panic because the pages we had just went Michael were online that night. Someone had hacked Michael's computer and posted the pages, so after that, everything became very secretive and encryption programs and nobody actually ever had a hard copy of it other than us and Michael.

SHH!: Even with a big crew who has to know what's going on?
Kurtzman: Really, they'd have to come read the script at the office, and they'd only get certain pages and they'd never get a full draft which makes their lives really bad.
Orci: Compartmentalization. We studied the Nixon White House actually a lot to figure out how to do that.

SHH!: The first time I talked to you guys about "Transformers" was at the junket for "The Island" which was four years ago, but you guys have always been open about sharing information or at least teasing stuff, but I'm actually going to see the movie next week knowing very little about it.
Orci: The tricky part is that Alex and I are not particularly secretive guys by nature at all. We're very open book, so it's counter-intuitive to us to dance around the subject.

SHH!: You also have "The Proposal" this weekend and I got to talk to Peter (Chiarelli, that movie's writer) about a week ago. Are you guys still able to stay on top of the production and development of other projects while you're so heavily into the writing of these movies?
Kurtzman: We have to work very, very closely with Michael because you really are writing the movie a third time in post and he has to make his editing choices around that, so we were right there with him for the last six months, kind of living with him in post in the editing room.
Orci: When Pete left us, we were very fortunate that we still have a great team assembled at our production company and they really prop us up, and they really are both our day-to-day business arm and face, but they're also great creatively even in the things that we're writing. It takes a little village.

SHH!: I was also wondering about developing projects and whether you had to set specific hours in a day for each thing on your plate?
Kurtzman: You know, it's just a discipline that you learn after time. Starting in television actually is an enormous help, because in TV, you're working on five things at a time. You're breaking a story, you're writing an episode, you're in the middle of shooting one and you're posting one, and you're thinking about what comes after that. You have to do that twenty-two times, so the discipline of having to focus in slots is just something that I think we've learned over the last ten years.
Orci: Yeah.

SHH!: I think "Fringe" can be considered a success because it survived a season at Fox, which is very rare I would think.
Kurtzman: No, it's true and it's just as Bob said. The only way we can really do this is to have an amazing team. I mean, Jeff Pinkner and Joel Wyman, who are running "Fringe" right now, we would not be able to do what we're doing if they weren't so good at their jobs. All credit to them, really.
Orci: It's really their show, and now we are consultants.

SHH!: Do you still have ideas for the show that you're able to throw at them once in a while?
Orci: Yeah, yeah, no, we try to get over there as much as we can and as much as they'll have us. (laughs)

SHH!: You guys really have helped to keep Leonard Nimoy in the spotlight, and it's great to have him back. Do you think we'll see him back for the full 2nd season of the show?
Orci: Yeah, it's great.
Kurtzman: He's wonderful. He's going to be back for several.
Orci: Well, you know, he's special. You can't just have him in there all over the place.
Kurtzman: Yeah.

SHH!: I'm guessing there isn't much you can say about the sequel to "Star Trek," but it was kind of greenlit before the movie even came out. Do you already have time set aside or a deadline of when you want to have a script done? What's the plan?
Kurtzman: We're aiming generally for Christmas, but literally, because it's been such a crazy back-to-back release schedule this summer, we haven't had time to sit down and think about it. So as soon as "Transformers" hits the theater, we're going to take a breath and then dive right into "Star Trek." We haven't broken anything yet. We haven't written the story yet.

SHH!: There was also a recent new story that J.J. might be involved with a fourth "Mission Impossible," and you were involved with the last one, so do you think you'd work on a fourth movie or do think that'll be too much?
Kurtzman: No, I think we have to focus on "Star Trek."
Orci: They also haven't invited us on frankly.

SHH!: What about the other things you've been developing at your company? Is "Cowboys & Aliens" going to move forward soon?
Kurtzman: We're in the middle of writing it right now. We're finishing a draft with Damon (Lindelof), so we hope to be done within the next couple of weeks and then we'll get a director on the movie and see where it goes from there.

SHH!: Do you think Robert Downey is still going to be involved with it, playing Zeke?
Kurtzman: Hopefully. Fingers crossed. We talked to him a while ago and we'd love him to do it, but he's the busiest man alive, so we're hoping the schedule is going to line up.

SHH!: Are you guys looking at that as another possible franchise or just one movie at a time kind of thing?
Kurtzman: If we're lucky, but we can only think of it as one movie at a time, because if we start thinking that way, it corrupts the whole movie.
Orci: Bad luck.

SHH!: What about "Atlantis Rising"? Might that forward soon or are you still developing it?
Kurtzman: We're still in development on it.
Orci: It's still rising. (rimshot)

SHH!: You mentioned having a great team earlier, but do you have other writers you're working with in terms of the movies you're scripting?
Kurtzman: Yeah, we're working very closely with Paul Attanasio right now, who wrote "Quiz Show" and "Donnie Brasco" (note: probably on the "Matt Helm" film"), we're working with David Ayer on something, who wrote "Training Day," (Note: that would probably be "Deep Sea Cowboy") so yeah, we're definitely building our...

Orci: Our strategic alliances of like-minded writers.
Kurtzman: And people we're just massive fans of.

SHH!: I was curious about that because when you have projects where you're the two main writers, and you're also producing and developing so many other things, you wonder if you still have time to actually sit down together and write.
Kurtzman: I think that's the fun of it actually. When you speak writer, you can just sit down and riff a story out quickly, and it's a safety net for everybody frankly, so we love it. It's really fun for us.

SHH!: What's going as far as the DreamWorks deal with Disney? You've obviously been there forever so do you have any what's going to happen with the movies you've been developing? You have a movie over at Disney so that helps, but are you going to have to move offices or anything?
Kurtzman: No, I think we're staying at our offices, right?
Orci: Yeah, I think we're staying where we are 'cause it's still the old Amlin/DreamWorks facility on the Universal lot. It's like the Vatican, it has its own laws and everything. We're excited for our first Disney cocktails mixer where we can meet everybody and see what's going to happen.
Kurtzman: The nice thing was that it was a nice (intro) for us in that we made "The Proposal" at Disney, so we're already very familiar with everybody over there, so it was a nice family to walk into.

SHH!: I understand that as a company, their stories are more executive-driven where a lot of the ideas come from higher up rather than being pitched by writers. Do you think you'll be able to bring over your own television background of writer-driven filmmaking to them?
Orci: A good idea is a good idea in my opinion, I don't care where it comes from.

SHH!: Cool. Thanks, guys. I'll let you go to your big press conference, and I'll probably talk to you again this time next year. (both guys laugh at this)
Kurtzman: Excellent, fingers crossed.

Transformers: Revenge of the Fallen is opening in the United States in regular and IMAX theatres on Wednesday, June 22. Star Trek and The Proposal are now playing in theaters.

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Posted by: The Magnus Hammer on June 23, 2009 at 02:34:31

Why do those twins make me not want to go see Revenge of the Fallen?

Posted by: Vansboyc on June 23, 2009 at 02:37:49

kool

Posted by: The Magnus Hammer on June 23, 2009 at 02:48:29

I'm a big transformers fan since '84 but I don't want to go see this movie because of the trailers. A geriatric, cranky Autobot with a cane? Two (TWO!) jive-talking, illiterate Autobots? These writers and Michael Bay are a-holes. I'm only going to see this movie because my wife liked the first one. I read the novelization and REALLY knew I would be disappointed. Man, I'm so freaking bummed.

Posted by: Sure thing on June 23, 2009 at 03:05:56

Sounds good to me. For those of you who think the new movie will suck, why don't you just ignore the news, altogether? We get it. You think it will suck. Move on.

Posted by: Tael on June 23, 2009 at 03:23:19

wall of text crits you for over nine thousand
you vomit

ahh ill read this later

Posted by: Shulk on June 23, 2009 at 09:48:16

Only about 15 more hours, then you all can complain all you want about your thoughts on the movie. After you have seen it that is...

Posted by: Relaxed on June 23, 2009 at 10:01:20

@rubsk1: It's human nature. In a university creative writing class my professor told the class flat out, don't moralize. People respond better when you leave them in the dark abyss you've created. It's easier for people to dwell on negative emotions so leave them there. If you try to bring them out of the depression you've created and show them there's a way out, you will lose most of your readers. It's why when filmmakers add things to the films with kids in mind, the people who have learned how not to enjoy their lives get angry. It's why Jar Jar's hated. It's one of the reasons why TDK is so loved because it never pulls itself out of the depression it created. And it's why people hate these guys for creating (quoting The Magnus Hammer) "Two (TWO!) jive talking, illiterate Autobots."

How dare they.

Posted by: mpw-dude on June 23, 2009 at 10:35:22

I saw it last night. Overall it was ok, but had Michael Bay written all over it. Some problems I did have were mentioned by The Magnus Hammer above. A robot having a cane serves no purpose.

The two stupid, ghetto-talking robots only exist in the movie for (intended, not successful) comic relief and at one point they -- don't worry, NO spoiler -- contribute (very predictably) to progressing the plot. You can tell they exist in the movie just so this thing can happen in the story! Much like that guy in X-Men 3 (forgive me fanboys, I don't remember his name) who can multiply himself, and he exists in the movie purely for that one scene where they trick the government into thinking the Mutant Brotherhood is still in the woods. Other than that, he contributes nothing to the movie (like many other C-list characters in the trilogy). Back to the two ghetto robots, I'd say they're kinda the Jay & Silent Bob of the movie (no offense to Kevin Smith, I'm a huge fan).

Another problem I kept having was how Sam and Mikaela kept leaping/falling from great heights while fleeing, and not have a single broken bone in their body. Like in Hancock -- they take the time to show that Hancock's blasting off into the air is so forceful that the pavement crushes beneath him, yet he throws that Michelle kid a thousand feet up, catches him when he falls, and the kid's bones aren't turned to dust?!? Maybe I'm expecting too much.

However, even with all of these flaws, I did overall enjoy the movie.

Posted by: mpw-dude on June 23, 2009 at 10:49:41

@Relaxed

I realize Transformers began as a kid's toy and the idea is supposed to cater to all ages, but they did a poor job of remembering that fact in this movie, which has content far WORSE than the first one did!

Remember the uncomfortable scene in the first flick where the mom asks Sam if he was... (censoring this so my post won't get edited or deleted) M-word-ing? That's nothing compared to the content in the sequel.

If they added the ghetto robots for the kids, one, that falls far short of making up for the rest of the content, and two, those two are terrible influences for kids! I don't have kids yet (we're expecting to soon) but when I do, I don't want my kids hearing ANY of the dialogue/attitude those two were throwing around. They were rude, nasty and just flat out annoying far beyond the point of "ok, that's enough, we get it".

Posted by: TF fan #2304 on June 23, 2009 at 11:43:34

To those of you who have already seen this movie and are hating on it by pointing out things that happen... Can you at least SHUT UP until it premieres here in the States? You people are annoying enough as it is comparing an 'escape' movie with a docu-drama. OF COURSE IT IS NOT REALISTIC! I would have thought the giant robots running around on the planet were enough to point that out. For those who don't like some of the characters as role models, DON'T SHOW IT TO YOUR KIDS, THEN! I have a 4yr old who loves Transformers (the corruption continues, bwahaha) but I am not going to let her see this movie until I see it myself first. It is called proper parenting, the original rating system. I still haven't shown her the original '85 movie because I don't want her having nightmares about Prime dying in that. When she is old enough to understand why, then I will show it to her. So in the meantime, enjoy the movie, critique it for what it is, popcorn fun, and have a good summer.

Posted by: WheeljackhoundMirage on June 23, 2009 at 11:51:39

How can you write a Transformers movie based off the toys and cartoon and not include characters from the actual source material. How can you then substitute them for these lame weak attempts to connect to a broader audience. I mean for Transformers sake why? Jetfire wasnt even named Jetfire in the cartoon he was SKYFIRE. Along with Sideswipe we should of got Wheeljack (who was always the coolest with his light up face) Hound who was the military expert and Mirage who was by far the coolest Autobot besides Prime, C'mon everybody these writers are SHYT and even though I really liked the first movie this movie is and will be garbage.

Posted by: Relaxed on June 23, 2009 at 12:28:34

@mpw-dude: I have no disagreements at all with what you just said. I think Hollywood in general has gotten to the point were crass, lude, vulgar, and disgusting = funny and lighthearted. And on top of that, I think families bring too young children to innapropriate films. (I hate seeing 3 year olds at a movie I know is going to make them scream.) My point is that funny and lighthearted are not qualities that should be ignored. I haven't seen the film and maybe it's disgusting beyond belief, but my perception of the attacks on these writers in particular that rubsk1 questioned is that it falls into the realm of "why can't they make Transformers a bloody, R-rated, no holds barred, rip people to shreds" venture like it would be in "real life". (Or there's a smaller segment which whines and gripes because Optimus Prime has flames which never happened in the cartoon so it's a travesty, but that's not the focus here.)

If their attempts at humor failed in this film, I can't attest to that until I see it. I can only attest to other movies of theirs such as Star Trek which I loved. But my perception is that the hating going on is not that the humor was crude (as I've noticed some of the haters loving on "Hangover" and other projects because they don't skimp on crude humor) but that the writers dared to put anything lighthearted in the movie at all.

Long story short (too late) I think you're right.

Posted by: LOL@Haters on June 23, 2009 at 12:37:33

I'm going to stop blaming Michael Bay for the mistakes in the Transformers movies and start blaming THESE two douche bags! Don't get me wrong...I enjoyed Transformers and will most likely enjoy ROTF...and I'm not trying to be HYPER critical...but let's be honest...SOME criticism is in order!

Posted by: RocknRolla on June 23, 2009 at 13:08:14

I don't know about these guys. The first Transformers movie was good because of Michael Bay's action. The story was garbage. This year, Star Trek was good, and it actually had a good story. So they're 1-1 as far as I'm concerned. I guess RotF will decide. I just wish they could use more of the Generation 1 characters and elements in Transformers. Where are Shockwave and Grimlock, you *******s?!

Posted by: ico on June 23, 2009 at 13:08:26

People ask why they have a geriatric robot in the film. Thats because they need some diversity in the characters. You people complained last time how you couldn't understand who was who and this time they make them more different and you guys still complain. It's rediculous. I like what i've seen so far, no complaints. All you guys do is *****, *****, *****.

Orci and Kurtzman are doing so well because they're good at what they do. They are responsible for some of the biggest blockbusters this millenium. I don't see any well paid screenwriters complaining about them.

Posted by: Jayce on June 23, 2009 at 13:23:16

Prolific???? These two douchebags are garbage writers, who have only been succesful at watering and dumbing down a kid's cartoon from the mid-80's. I mean the OG cartoon had some crappy/cheesey stories but these guys are producing the kind of cheesey lameness found on the nachos at an underground cockfight in a 3rd wolrd country.

Posted by: brian on June 23, 2009 at 13:33:08

@ The Magnus Hammer

you read the novelization of a transformers movie? and you were disappointed? weird.

newsflash. this isn't ****ing Shakespeare people.

Posted by: MB on June 23, 2009 at 14:27:46

Everybody is trashing this movie even the fans of the first movie

Posted by: Christopher Walken on June 23, 2009 at 14:31:08

I never watched the Transformers cartoon or read the comic so I dont have that perspective. I am a huge film buff though and I have to say when a movie is being reviewed by saying "if you turn your brain off you'll enjoy it", which I have heard from a lot of people, it just doesn't sound promising. I can't form an opinion until I see it though, but it just lowers my expectations that weren't that high to begin with.

I have two opinions on the subject of staying true to comics and cartoon. If you are adjusting or flat out changing things for the sake of story, and being more cohesive, then I totally understand it and welcome it. It is a different medium, and frankly it would be kinda redundant and boring to just rewatch something we've already seen. That being said.... if things get changed because the director or writer are too ignorant when it comes to the source material, I ask why are you doing it in the first place? I really cant knock Orci and Kurtzman because they wrote movies like Star Trek and Mission Impossible 3. I look at the common denominator being directors. I mean the original script for Transformers could have been mind blowing before Bay went and made changes. All of this is speculation, but hearing Bay speak, and hearing his interviews, and he did a guest spot on that "who wants to be a director" show back in 07 where he criticized a guy for having too tight of shots, then I watched Transformers thinking "Dude you have no room to talk".

Posted by: Monte Cristo on June 23, 2009 at 15:35:42

You guys complain so much yet you never give an idea on a different story appoach that they could of use! A short synopsis... Which is exactly why your comments don't mean ****! It's not going to stop people from watching this movie!

Posted by: Monte Cristo on June 23, 2009 at 15:37:11

Besides, I'd trust these two writers (Who are actually big fans of the show) over your story ideas!

Posted by: walthizzall on June 23, 2009 at 16:43:05

actually its out on the 24th of june

Posted by: The Magnus Hammer on June 23, 2009 at 17:02:06

You guys who try to brush me and others like me aside can eat a big fat one. As long as these two dorks get props for making doo-doo and there are forums like this I'm gonna talk ALL DAY LONG AS LONG AS I LIKE. I like to have fun at a movie every summer but I don't like to be insulted. Instead of the cool, kick-ass generation one Autobots such as Grimlock, Prowl (who was a cool-as-hell ninja on Transformers Animated) or Ultra Magnus, we get witty Bumblebee turned into Helen Keller with a stereo and broke-ass General Motors/"What we gone do now, Prime" caricatures of ignorant black people. Damn, if they're gonna do that, at least make one of them Blaster, since they already killed off the only other "black" Transformer. Which I'm quietly glad they did. I'm black and I'd back-slap the **** out of a black dude who came to me talking like that. No, I wouldn't. I'd probably get "a cap busted in my ass" like one of those new Ain't-a-bots says in the movie.

If you're going to put in some motor-mouthed, trash-talking Autobots, why not include Bluestreak or Sunstreaker or Cliffjumper. Or why not just have Sideswipe and Sunstreaker be "the twins" and throw us fans a bone? They always had witty banter, big egos, kicked ass, and had cool-ass car modes. The fans and non-fans would have both had a blast. We would make Transformers leap-frog The Dark Knight and Titanic for the top all-time.

But no, we get these robotic Wayans brothers because people sheep-walked into those dumb-ass Wayans movies, ate up that old minstrel "yassir" Sleep N'Eat bullspit.

I really did like the first one for all its flaws. I got past all the re-designs and different colors and the emphasis on humans (since the writers and Bay didn't think we could empathize with robots--but didn't Wall-E prove that so damn wrong?) I was blown away when an Autobot or Decepticon was on screen.

Did Bay rape my childhood like people often claim on Ain't It Cool News? Don't be ridiculous. He just gave it a sloppy make-up job, dime-store mini-skirt and six-inch heels, threw it out on a corner on Ho Stroll Avenue, and told it, "I'mma come get you in the mornin' and you betta have my money, b!tch."

And there I am, unable to keep myself from telling that b!tch to get in my car so I can give her my money for a couple of hours of nasty pleasure.

Orci, Kurtzman, and Bay, my hats off to ya! True pimps!

Posted by: The Magnus Hammer on June 23, 2009 at 17:08:49

Oh, and when has a Transformers movie, show, comic book, anything not had a single extended scene, other than a thirty-second flashback, on Cybertron? Is it that dead and void of life? Or were the filmmakers too lazy or tight on budget to include it?

Posted by: daniel clavette on June 23, 2009 at 17:18:25

The best super hero robot movies of all time of 2009.

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